Ryan Wilson: Airing of grievances: Matt Murray Airing of grievances: Matt Murray

I think psychology is a major factor when it comes to goalies and that Murray is "not right" at the moment. This does not mean he has become a bad goalie - he just needs to get back to the right place, mentally speaking. Effort certainly is not the issue, especially considering that this is a contract year for him, and if he were injured to the point where it was compromising his play I would hope that he would be placed on IR.

If Murray can come around later in the season it could be a tremendous benefit to the team. As was shown in both the 2016 and 17 Cup runs, having a "1A" and "1B" goalie can be very beneficial. This time it might be worth trying to go for a 50/50 split, if Murray can come around.

Also, the Vancouver game was not Murray's fault. He may not have had to face many shots but the ones he did face he really did not have a reasonable chance on. The team has to play better in front of him, for example by limiting quality chances against and of course by getting some themselves (and not going an entire period without a shot - sometimes the best defense is a good offense).

Neither Murray nor Schultz are doing themselves any favors right now, but it is only December, and so both of them have plenty of time to redeem themselves and cash in. Long season folks.

Anyone else going to indulge themselves in the IHFF tournament? It's become a Christmas time-off ritual for me... a chance to enjoy some good hockey without any stakes in the outcome. Well... aside from rooting for the US (against Canada).

Let's see what his next games are like. He did let in one goal after a bad rebound against Vancouver but he couldn't do much against the other goals which were grade A chances. Considering he hadn't played in quite a while, I think he looked pretty good out there. # of shots isn't always representative of a goalie's workload.

The team in front of him had ZERO shots in the first... Blame them.

Maybe it will be time to move Murray, who knows, but if I'm extrapolating what I think RW is saying and I agree with this, is there's not rush right now which is all I've been saying.

I'm not against moving Murray if he's simply not the right goalie to invest long-term in and Jarry is able to maintain this level through the playoffs, but we do have to expect some regression.

For people who think Murray's value is questionable, you can really look back at questionable goalies who got nice contracts or acquired them because teams were desperate. Jake Allen, Mike Smith and James Reimer to name a couple.

Would Murray get a first? Probably not, but he's accomplished and I can see the Pens getting either a solid roster player or a futures package of a 2nd and decent prospect.

The team in front of him had ZERO shots in the first... Blame them.
- kaptaan

Does he even mention the Vancouver game? Isn't this just a summary of his nightmare season since November 1? I mean, he's been every bit as brutal as the blog suggests.

I don't think he's singularly blaming for the Van game....but since you bring it up, Vancouver had 14 shots. 4 went in. Two were on PP's. One was 5v3. Even if you give him a pass on those, which most of us have, there's still no excuse for the the 3rd goal. That was the knee capper. The Pens finally get a goal and Murray craps the bed 45 seconds later with a horrific rebound on a wide open look with no traffic.

Conversely, Markstrom was great. I think if Jarry was playing it's likely the Pens at the minimum squeeze a point out of that game. They had 29 shots in periods 2 and 3. The letdown of that 3rd goal basically crushed all hope.

AA for MM.

AA for MM.
- Feds91Stammer

I thought you guys had a promising goalie in the pipeline?

Maybe it will be time to move Murray, who knows, but if I'm extrapolating what I think RW is saying and I agree with this, is there's not rush right now which is all I've been saying.

I'm not against moving Murray if he's simply not the right goalie to invest long-term in and Jarry is able to maintain this level through the playoffs, but we do have to expect some regression.

For people who think Murray's value is questionable, you can really look back at questionable goalies who got nice contracts or acquired them because teams were desperate. Jake Allen, Mike Smith and James Reimer to name a couple.

Would Murray get a first? Probably not, but he's accomplished and I can see the Pens getting either a solid roster player or a futures package of a 2nd and decent prospect.
- Rinosaur

Defying all logic (and advanced stats), I'd bet the farm there will be more than one GM who will recognize MM's Stanley Cup pedigree, and thinking a fresh start would help, would easily offer up a first.

I myself hope he works through whatever is ailing him these days and stays.

Defying all logic (and advanced stats), I'd bet the farm there will be more than one GM who will recognize MM's Stanley Cup pedigree, and thinking a fresh start would help, would easily offer up a first.

I myself hope he works through whatever is ailing him these days and stays.
- Cousinskrid

I hope he get's through this too. I think they should keep him through the end of the season, but I'm not giving him his next deal. There's been rumors floating around he wants something like 8 x 8. I can't commit that to a goalie who's showing substantial consistency issues. I'm including his injury history too.

Keep him as insurance through the season while you get an extended look at Jarry. No decision needs to made at this point anyway. If somebody knocks you over at the deadline, you obviously have to consider it.

Still a ways to go but if MM doesn’t step up his performance he will be getting even less starts than he is now. Agree with RW that arbitration may be the best option although claiming he has fallen behind DeSmith is not right. Pens extremely fortunate that TJ has played so well. With expansion looming, the Pens will need to figure out the goalie situation.

What I see in MM right now is a guy who has lost his job and instead of working his ass off to win it back he’s decided to pout about it.

Jarry is legit, MM should be traded before we have a 3rd string goalie making 5 million on our roster and Jarry saying “well I’m the starter don’t you think I should get as much as the backup?”

"The team in front of him had ZERO shots in the first... Blame them. "

kaptaan, I agree with you 100%

However, an extremely large version of this fan base still has a man crush on Marc Andre Fleury and wholly blame Murray for Fleury leaving. As such, they will never blame anyone other than Murray for anything that goes on in a game in which Murray appears.

I hope he gets his confidence back--that's always fickle for a goalie. Murray was a huge reason why they won Cups in 2016, 17 but the MAF lovers in the crowd refuse to acknowledge that.

What I see in MM right now is a guy who has lost his job and instead of working his ass off to win it back he’s decided to pout about it.

Jarry is legit, MM should be traded before we have a 3rd string goalie making 5 million on our roster and Jarry saying “well I’m the starter don’t you think I should get as much as the backup?”
- stackthepads

I have heard MM is lacking in the conditioning and 'work your a$$ off' departments, but thinking they might just be here say... but being really laid back as he is known for really only works when you're winning...

I thought you guys had a promising goalie in the pipeline?
- Rinosaur

Nope. A few guys that could become starters or never make the league at all. Not a single sure thing in the group.

If MM doesn't find his game I would try to sign him to another bridge deal.

MM: Two years at $4M with no added clauses
TJ: Three years at $3.5M

Again, IF Jarry, even after the regression he will definitely have, maintains above average goaltending, then I think that deal is fair just like the one Murray had. I think a Jarry/Murray tandem would be as strong as you can hope for and at just under $8M invested into two goalies I think that's pretty solid.

Plus, you're giving the Pens an out with Murray come the expansion draft.

If MM doesn't find his game I would try to sign him to another bridge deal.

MM: Two years at $4M with no added clauses
TJ: Three years at $3.5M

Again, IF Jarry, even after the regression he will definitely have, maintains above average goaltending, then I think that deal is fair just like the one Murray had. I think a Jarry/Murray tandem would be as strong as you can hope for and at just under $8M invested into two goalies I think that's pretty solid.

Plus, you're giving the Pens an out with Murray come the expansion draft.
- Rinosaur

MM has arbitration rights and 2 cups. Good luck with that negotiation.

Nope. A few guys that could become starters or never make the league at all. Not a single sure thing in the group.
- Feds91Stammer

I'm still wanting to wait this season out to see where the goaltending falls, but if Jarry can keep up playing solid, then I think MM for AA would be a pretty fair swap. I love AA, but I just wonder if Sullivan would put the kibosh on him due to his defensive issues.

MM has arbitration rights and 2 cups. Good luck with that negotiation.
- Feds91Stammer

How much do they factor in the most recent season though? I honestly don't know too much about arb. Is there not a "what have you done for me lately" factor?

What I see in MM right now is a guy who has lost his job and instead of working his ass off to win it back he’s decided to pout about it.

Jarry is legit, MM should be traded before we have a 3rd string goalie making 5 million on our roster and Jarry saying “well I’m the starter don’t you think I should get as much as the backup?”
- stackthepads

Where is he pouting? Not saying he hasn’t but I haven’t seen any quotes or interviews or anything.

JR made the proper call when he moved on from MAF. He will again make the right call again by moving on from Murray.

The truth is Sullivan is the one who has made the decisions all along. He is the one who moved on from Fluery and he is now in the process of handing over the starting job to Jarry.

How much do they factor in the most recent season though? I honestly don't know too much about arb. Is there not a "what have you done for me lately" factor?
- Rinosaur

Sure that comes into play but find me a 25 year old with 2 cup wins that signed for 2x4m

I hope he get's through this too. I think they should keep him through the end of the season, but I'm not giving him his next deal. There's been rumors floating around he wants something like 8 x 8. I can't commit that to a goalie who's showing substantial consistency issues. I'm including his injury history too.

Keep him as insurance through the season while you get an extended look at Jarry. No decision needs to made at this point anyway. If somebody knocks you over at the deadline, you obviously have to consider it.
- madmike71

I'd be nervous about an arbitrator awarding 5 x 2. I also assume that means we are in a bind with the expansion draft, too.

I think this is a good opportunity for the Pens to be proactive. I wonder if a deal could be worked out for a MM - Lehner based trade? CHI will be out of it soon and both of their goalies are UFAs. They get their goalie of the future (maybe). We get insurance at the position for this season (and maybe next with a one-year extension). Maybe CHI adds to balance out value.

Let's face it, this season is almost half over, and MM looks like crap. We have exactly 1.5 seasons before the expansion draft where we lose either Murray or Jarry for nothing if Murray is given a contract at the end of the season. Some have suggested waiting until the end of the season to trade Murray, but why? Is he really insurance this year? Or a big liability? If we get a quality backup in return, that seems ideal to me. Besides, if Murray continues his poor play, his value craters.

Sure that comes into play but find me a 25 year old with 2 cup wins that signed for 2x4m
- Feds91Stammer

I'm not arguing. I'm saying I really don't know what factors weight the most in arb and how much recent play factors in.

FWIW, I'm not one of the Murray detractors here. My suggestion about the bridge deal is if he really poops the bed this season when all is said and done.